Preparations for the deck laminate.

Now is the time to think very seriously about the deck lay-out. During the whole build I have been pondering with a few different options about rigging and hardware.

A deck stepped boom resolves the problem caused by lines (reefing lines, outhaul, mainsheet) coming from the boom and interfere with mast rotation. I made a mock-up to see how big of a problem this is and also studied a lot of photo’s of the big 60′ Orma Tri’s. My conclusion is that it is not worth the extra trouble and the interference with mast rotation can be minimized by making the line exit in the boom a little more aft of the mast. So the boom will be mounted to the mast “the normal way” with the advantage that the boom induces the mast rotation.

I can see the advantages of the self tacking jib. However, there are some complications. The track crossing the daggerboardcase interferes with the daggerboard and the length of the track is limited by the folding movement of the beam. Nevertheless (I’m getting older and looking for more sailing comfort) I have decided to go for the self tacking jib and I assume that I am able to resolve this in the finishing phase of the build.

Furthermore I decided to make a curved track for the mainsail sheet traveler. Probably the traveler will be extended to the beams, but this is also of later concern. The mainsail sheet goes to the winch on the port side of the cabin roof.

And finally I have designed a plan to organize all running rigging from mast to the winches on the cabin roof.  With the above starting points and the running rigging plan I am now able to put in all high density foam inserts in all these places where hardware will be bolted down.

Click for photo galery

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5 Responses to Preparations for the deck laminate.

  1. Dorian Meid says:

    Hi Henny, nice to see your progress as always.
    I wonder about a few things.
    1. How many winches do you want to use for all this control lines?
    2. Do you also plan lines to control the position of the jibtrack-car?
    3. The line you are calling “tack” is the same as a cunningham I assume or is there a difference?
    4. Why do you have two lazyjack controls? Are there any advantages over LJ systems with one control for both sides?
    5. Why only one rotator control? I understand that it is perfect sufficient with one control, but on the other hand it can be handy sometimes being able to restrict rotation either in relation to the boom or in relation to the hull.
    6. What is the reason for having a jib tack control in the cockpit (same as cunningham with main I suppose, but the jib luff tension can be much more easily be adjusted with halyard)
    7. Is the jib retriever line to bring a traditional jib down or is it to furl a furling jib in?
    8. I like to have corresponding lines on the same side of the boat. E.g. main halyard, topping lift and reefing lines or daggerboard controls. What are your considerations about this?
    9. I see you opt for two line reefing. Why do you prefer this instead of single line reefing?
    10. You go for winch control of the mainsheet. What makes you favour this instead of high purchase tackle?

    Lots of questions I know 🙂

    Dorian

  2. Fram says:

    Hi Henny, nice to see your progress as always.
    I wonder about a few things.
    1. How many winches do you want to use for all this control lines?
    Two
    2. Do you also plan lines to control the position of the jibtrack-car?
    Yes, one from the centre.
    3. The line you are calling “tack” is the same as a cunningham I assume or is there a difference?
    No, the cunningham is a clew just above the tack. I won’t use it. Tack 1, 2 and 3 are the reefing clews.
    4. Why do you have two lazyjack controls? Are there any advantages over LJ systems with one control for both sides?
    I don’t know ecactly yet but I also want a system to pull the LJ’s to the boom.
    5. Why only one rotator control? I understand that it is perfect sufficient with one control, but on the other hand it can be handy sometimes being able to restrict rotation either in relation to the boom or in relation to the hull.
    Both is possible with just one line when the boom introduces the rotation force.
    6. What is the reason for having a jib tack control in the cockpit (same as cunningham with main I suppose, but the jib luff tension can be much more easily be adjusted with halyard)
    It is for a reefable jib.
    7. Is the jib retriever line to bring a traditional jib down or is it to furl a furling jib in?
    This is to bring the jib down, at least the last part of it.
    8. I like to have corresponding lines on the same side of the boat. E.g. main halyard, topping lift and reefing lines or daggerboard controls. What are your considerations about this?
    In general main sail system on port and forward systems on starboard, however this is not possible for all lines. There is a certain order dictated by the turning blocks at the mast base and the space on the cabin roof is limited so the amount of lines/rope cluthes must be about the same on both sides of the cabin hatch. Reefing lines in pair together on the same side. Main and jib sheets must be seperated.
    9. I see you opt for two line reefing. Why do you prefer this instead of single line reefing?
    I don’t believe in a one line system for such a huge mainsail. Seems to be more suitable for the Bavaria’s and the like.
    10. You go for winch control of the mainsheet. What makes you favour this instead of high purchase tackle?
    Easy use and I think the mainsail is just to big for a tackle system

    Lots of questions I know 

    No problem and of course I’m open for better ideas.

    Henny

    • Dorian Meid says:

      >>1. How many winches do you want to use for all this control lines?
      >Two
      Two additional to the jib winches I guess?

      >>2. Do you also plan lines to control the position of the jibtrack-car?
      >Yes, one from the centre.
      Ok, I was imprecise. I wanted to know about the cars of the two separate jib tracks, not the selftacking one.

      >>5. Why only one rotator control? I understand that it is perfect sufficient with one control, but on the other hand it can be handy sometimes being able to restrict rotation either in relation to the boom or in relation to the hull.
      >Both is possible with just one line when the boom introduces the rotation force.
      Not without relocation of the pulley. The idea is to have one tackle going from the rotator arm to the boom and another one from the rotator to the hull. With the first one you can adjust maximum rotation of the mast in relation to the boom. With the latter one you can restrict maximum rotation of the mast in relation to the hull (e.g. fixing it at centerline if you like to have a very long conversation whether this will break your mast or not 😉

      >>6. What is the reason for having a jib tack control in the cockpit (same as cunningham with main I suppose, but the jib luff tension can be much more easily be adjusted with halyard)
      >It is for a reefable jib.
      I’m very unsure wether to go with a traditional jib or a furler. On one hand you are planning a selftacking jib for laziness and on the other hand you outweigh the advantage with the traditional jib. Then you can reef the main from cockpit but you have to go to the bow every time for reefing or dropping the jib. I had a hank on jib for many years and was fine with it. Raising or dropping was not the problem (it had no reef) but having it to stow away after sailing every time sucked.
      And if you for safety, I can remember a few times fighting with the jib to secure it at the bow after having it dropped in strong winds.
      On the boats I sailed so far I used 70% traditional jibs, usually the more performance boats used them and the more comfy ones had furlers, so I have no comparison of the two systems on similar boats. I see advantages and disadvantages on both sides, why do you opt against a furler?

      >>9. I see you opt for two line reefing. Why do you prefer this instead of single line reefing?
      >I don’t believe in a one line system for such a huge mainsail. Seems to be more suitable for the Bavaria’s and the like.
      Ok, here I disagree. The main drawback of a single line reef is it’s theoretical higher friction. Today there are good blocks available to be used in the sail. In fact when looking at the whole path including mast base blocks, organizers and clamps the two lines have more turning points than a single one. While reefing in you are using the lines one by one, this is very easy, but also not to hard with a single line. Reefing out you have to pull both lines plus the weight of the main with the halyard. Next point is the number of lines going from the boom to the cabin roof. Those lines are quite out of the center of rotation of the mast. So first of all the tension of those lines also depends a little bit of the mast rotation and second they pull the mast midship, thus restricting free rotation.
      A single line reef has a built in 1:4 purchase, so the load on the line is lower, i.e. less force from the line. Next the length change which comes with different rotation angles is not as bad to the tack and clew position. And last you have a few lines less (being longer instead, but not double as long).
      I would prefer reef 1 and 2 to be a single line system and maybe consider reef 3 to be two lines because it is very deep and the line would be rather long.

      >>10. You go for winch control of the mainsheet. What makes you favour this instead of high purchase tackle?
      >Easy use and I think the mainsail is just to big for a tackle system
      Yes I think your right with that, I just calculated a necessary 1:32 purchase tackle, that’s not comfortable any more.

      Dorian

  3. Fram says:

    In this setup with the selftacking jib the two jibtracks on the cabinroof are superfluous, but I have to prepare the deck with HD inserts to keep all options open and maybe they are still necessary for sheeting a stormjib, however I think this jib can use the selftacking track also. So for now just two winches on the cabin roof for all lines.

    If the need comes to make use of the jib track on the cabin roof I made the HD inserts a little longer than the alumium track for the mounting of a turning block just in front of the track for the control line of the jib car.

    I believe that one line for mast rotation will do in most circumstances. Why the extra comlpications of a second system? However, when practice turnes out that a secondcsystem becomes necessary it is not too difficult to add. The out side of the selftacking jib track is a good fixing point for the tackle.

     A selftacking jib is a compromise between laziness and sail efficiency. A furler will compromise more in favour of laziness. However, the traditional jib can be made a little larger and more efficient with a couple of battens. Why would you stowe away this jib? That is not my idea. I will leave it hanked on and stowed on deck in a special made sailbag, something like the sailcover of the mainsail.

    Sailchanges on the foredeck will be minimal as the HA jib will be suitable till 25kn wind. Reefing the jib on a temporary more comfortable course is not a big deal. I don’t have to go to the pullpit, just till the jibtrack and maybe I can find a way to do this all from cockpit.

    I’m not sure yet about the stormjib. Hanked on to the forestay or a dedicated system like a cutter. Time will tell. At least I made an extra HD insert into the foredeck for an extra attachement point.

    Maybe you are right about the one line reefing system. I don’t have experience with it but somehow I think it is less suitable for larger sails. But that is just a feeling and maybe wrong. It is worth to take in consideration.

  4. Dorian Meid says:

    I had a hank on jib (small genoa) on my last mono, I always thought about buying a sailbag for it, but on the smaller boat it was always in the way when left at the stay. Additionally our berth was to be used via the bow, so the jib really had to be taken off.
    You know that a traditional style reefing jib is a jiffy reef? At the bow there are no lazy jacks to flake the dropped jib. When reefing you will have to go front and tie in all the lanyards, not only up to the jibtrack. My jib only had three lanyards but reefing or dropping the jib at weather was definitely the most troublesome job on the boat and I’ve done this more than once (but at least I always felt like a real sailor afterwards, good reward as long as you are young, healthy and not tired). I also had this retriever line to bring it down fast, but not a second one for the reefed tack. I once talked to a sailmaker and he said it is easier to change headsails completely than to reef one. Maybe he’s right, maybe he just wanted to sell me new sails.

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